Archive: Lydia Lunch Revisits Teenage Jesus
This classic Artrocker.TV feature saw Ric Rawlins sit down with Lydia Lunch in 2008
For a while the idea seemed cursed. Every time Lydia Lunch was in London, I’d whisk through the contacts, find the number, grab the phone, and chew the cud with ‘her people’ - just as she was stepping onto a plane, gone for another year.
“Is she available this time?”
“Na Ric, she just got on da plane!”
“Neeaargh!”
This routine carried on for a few years. Then, one day, jackpot;
“Ok Ric, she ‘aint got on the plane yet – come on down!”
“I’ll be there!”
But then, another curse seemed to strike; just what do you ask Lydia Lunch? She played a crucial role in the No Wave scene as the singer with Teenage Jesus and the Jerks. She spearheaded a film movement, the Cinema of Transgression. Then, after collaborating with Sonic Youth on ‘Death Valley 69’, she became an influential poet and musician, all the while glittering with the aura of a sexually devious erotic heroine and releasing tonnes of books. Where to begin?
I sat in my room chewing my hands, then called the one person whom I knew who had an encyclopaedic knowledge of Lunch. His advice was useful.
“Ask her the following questions; murmur, murmur, murmur…”
“I see!”
But I didn’t entirely see, and the question of what to ask her was still racing round my skull as I approached the jet-black hair, the dark velvet jacket and the cruel red lips sat outside the backstreet bar in South London.
“Hi Lydia?”
“That's it, OK! Let's go!”
Ric Rawlins: The Teenage Jesus reunion happened in June, how did it go?
Lydia Lunch: It was fan-fucking-tastic. One of the greatest compliments came from Lee Ranaldo when we were rehearsing. He said "I thought you were playing the record!" But that whole thing thing wouldn't have happened had it not been for Thurston Moore sitting in my living room, who was about to put out his No Wave book - which is fantastic by the way - and he said "What about a gig?" I'm like, "they're all dead apart from Jim Sclavunos and he's drumming for Nick Cave." And he goes "What about me?!" and I said "Alright!"
RR: Did it come easy?
LL: Well, Teenage Jesus were trained was with a wire coat hanger - any mistakes were beaten out of them. So the thought of beating Thurston Moore made me quite happy. Ha ha! So the reunion was pretty good, and we're going on to do ATP in December.
RR: So it wasn’t like the Pixies where you’re all pretending to get on - but really…
LL: Thurston Moore is one of my best friends and Jim Scalvunos was in, like five of my fucking bands... so. But still on stage, any mistake was met with quite a bit of disapproval. ‘Again! Again!’ And sometimes even when there were no mistakes, I made them restart the song again. (laughs) Ahh just teasing!
RR: You’re in London doing spoken word tonight – what kind of themes are you currently dealing with?
LL: Tonight is part of my show called ‘The Ghosts of Spain’, so it’s about loneliness, the desert, dead men, ghosts… and a bit about the war. The endless war.
RR: Do you prefer being at home or on the road?
LL: I prefer being on my fucking couch - let's be serious here. But I don't go on tours like normal people. I go for a weekend or four days - I don't get in the fucking van. I can pick and choose. I prefer to do poetry festivals with a diverse audience and nice theatres. There's not that much demand for me, but the demand that there is is in interesting places.
RR: In the past you've said that you wish we could all develope back into tribes. Do you feel that the internet has brought artists together into tribes, or has it created a physical distance that pushes them apart?
LL: (The internet) is like a disjointed connection. The beauty of the tribe is that it's an intimate connection - and I think that's where real experience, communication and exchange happens. In this day and age we have to take the convenience of the internet to try and formulate a connection somewhere, but there's nothing like being in intimate contact with people - because that's where you get a cellular connection. I prefer looking someone in the fucking eye.
RR: Do you feel that your art has ever been censored or restricted?
LL: Well, who's restricting me? They don't know about me! But I don't live in America anymore, and now that America - as of October 1st - went into Martial Law, they're starting to train all the returning Iraqi veterans to take street control. I left America before the thievery of the last election, knowing what was coming. And I think because I'm under the economic radar, my art has never been censored.
I don't think they know who the fuck I am - maybe they do, but I don't think so. If under Reagan my speech was called 'The Gun Is Loaded' and the quote was "I'm gonna vote with a bullet" – well, if they haven't figured that one out then I think I'm safe. Having said that, if I do disappear suddenly, don't bother looking for me. I'm gone by choice or chance!
RR: Are you following the (Obama Vs McCain) elections?
LL: I am obsessed with the fucking US elections! The one thing I'm disappointed about, with Barack Obama, is that he should have me writing his fucking speeches. 'Cos he needs to fucking take the gloves off! Because other than Nelson Mandella - and yes it's another black man example - I cannot think of a more dignified, intelligent representative of a country that we've been offered the possibility of.
RR: How has your attitude to sex changed as you’ve got older?
LL: You're a bad boy aren't you? I don't know if it's me or if it’s everybody, but my attitude about sex changes every few months. I'm very fucking moody and I go with the mood. Let's deal with it on a pornographic level. Sometimes there'll be months where I just wanna see the worst, most disgusting, hideous, bad production pornography. Then there's other times where I don't even want the highest quality, most sexually adventurous, great production value... I don't want these fucking freaks in my bedroom! Get them the fuck out! Because I don't want anyone in my bedroom except for me and my fucking machines. I don't have a fucking machine - I wish I did - but you know what I mean.
RR: So how does that manifest itself?
LL: So many of my own fetishes are best left within the confines of my own head. Not to be acted out, because someone would get seriously wounded. The body can take a lot more punishment when you're in your twenties than it can when when you're in your forties... although I'm not so sure! If I consider my body a hotel with so many monsters, that's the best way - and letting certain ones out to play at certain times is, I think, a very healthy way of living as a sexual schizophrenic.
RR: Are you still a big fan of Hubert Selby jr?
LL: He was, and remains one of my heroes. And even in his death he hasn't got the recognition he deserves – I guess that’s just the way it is. Whoever he has impacted has been impacted so greatly by his material that that's the reward. When I first met Selby that was the first thing out of my mouth. I asked; "do you have any idea how you've impacted my generation?" He was like "no!" so I was like "Well I'm gonna tell you!"
RR: Did that cheer him up?
LL: Oh yeah. But my favourite thing was when we were on tour together I said something really rude and vulgar and he said to me; "You're rotten kid!" and I was like 'Yes! Selby called me rotten!'
RR: What about other artists, is there anyone coming up at the moment who you’d recommend?
LL: I really recommend Bryan Lewis Saunders. I don't know if you've ever heard of Steven "Jesse" Bernstein, he's quite the next generation on from this, but check Bryan Lewis Saunders out on Youtube - he's my absolute fucking favourite - he's out there.
RR: And, as an artist, what was your reaction to the JT Leeroy scandal?
LL: Look, to me the fucking literature holds up. I don't care who pretended they wrote it. I do feel it kind of sad that Laura Albert who did the writing felt she had to fabricate this whole phenomenon. But I understand that people are not going to take seriously a 35 year old fucking woman, writing this beautiful literature, coming from this perspective. It was a great art scam. But if you take the literature alone, it holds up. So I don't care!
RR: Did you feel betrayed at all?
LL: Well I – as well as dozens of people were suckered into this - and you know what? Oh fucking well! The literature stands alone, and to me it's as real as if it happened. It doesn't matter. The detail may be different, but the trauma remains and that's the fucking point. Invent a character.
And it's kind of the same thing I have to face in my own career; I'm old fucking news. I've been around for 30 fucking years - hard to fucking believe I know, but what if I released an album under some young hot-shot name? With a Britney-fucking-reject photo, doing jazz-noire? Well hello Amy-fucking-Winehouse! What's the latest disaster? And what a tragedy that fucking cunt is. Did you ever see pictures of her from about three years ago when she looked like we do? Hot! She's pathetic. She's fucking pathetic.
And this is why I'm the anti-Winehouse and why I'm the anti-Courtney Love; because first of all I will never loose those ten pounds, I guarantee - and neither should you! - but secondly I will never play that fucking media imposed game of this out-dated, ridiculous, queer - and I don't mean gay by queer- queer beauty standard.
I have to give a womanly example; woman- meaning body example, because nobody else does. I mean, who does? What, is it me and The Gossip? There's gotta be some happy medium here! So that's one issue, and the other issue is that nomatter how many drugs or how many dicks I've done, you're not gonna see me falling down in the fucking gutter because I'm gonna do that on my own time - thankyou very much.
News RSS Feed
