From The Archive: Atari Teenage Riot interviewed in 2011

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This is the first ATR album in twelve years - how does it feel to be back?

Alec: It feels like driving a red ferrari in the red, then coming off the road…you know that kind of moment. Haha ...but all in a videogame of course…hyperreal...

Berlin is still a celebrated cultural center for artists. How has it changed in the last ten years, and from the perspective of the artists, where do you think it is heading?

Alec: The big difference between London and Berlin is that the outdated idea of pop culture simply doesn't play a role in Berlin.

That has to do with the history of the city. The Wall, the lack of national identity because of that, created this. I think it is a huge advantage in the world we live in now. Everything is global now, to define a Nation's taste by watching top of the pops on TV to then walk out next Monday to buy a CD single is absurd. But still most people in the music industry, and that also goes for the musicians, do think in this pattern.
Berlin is free from that. Everything is fragmented there…it's easy to understand when you look at the architecture of the city. Eastern European Socialist themes collide with all kinds of influences from France, USA or simply West-Germany.

All that reflects how people live and feel in Berlin…the concept of constructing, creating something from bricks and ashes connects every artist in Berlin…Einstürzende Neubauten, Atari Teenage Riot or even other artists like Sirius Mo or any of the upcoming electronic producers. London is celebrating the golden 60ties over and over again. Berlin is shaping the future. Berlin's only problem is that many artists can get caught up in it and forget the rest of the world. Like scientists who have trouble communicating their ideas on TV. Berlin is in danger of becoming a black hole. It draws in a lot of creative powers, while ideally it should go both ways. In and out. Ideally London and Berlin should be more connected and learn from each other.



The whole album was programmed on an old Atari ST1040 computer with 2MB ram - where did you get this piece of kit from and why has it become so iconic to your sound?

Alec: Back in the day this was the Mac…everybody made music with it. There is something about its timing and fast attack when it's triggering the sounds, that no other computer has. You just approach music in a certain way when you program on it. When I was still in school, I worked this shitty warehouse job during the holidays, so I was able to buy this thing. It's rare these days, and it's hard to repair them. We have about 15 Ataris which are in use…then a couple that we use when we tour. The Gorrillaz album done on the iPad? That is no challenge, because the iPad is a limited device but in comparison a super computer…to do what we do on a computer with 2MB ram, well you must be Einstein to figure this one out these days…haha…not saying that I'm that smart…but I'm getting there…slowly…haha….

Activate deals with government censorship of the internet. Why is this an important theme for these times, and do you think there was an element of smear to the allegations made of Julian Assange?

Alec: This is important because the government will have more access to our private lives than they should. Now many people are asking themselves, why does this matter when we have nothing to hide? The past of Nazi Germany and socialist East Germany has shown us how dangerous so much government control is. Anyone can become a suspect these days. People lose their jobs because of a joke photo they took while they were drunk and uploaded it on Facebook.

A lot of software is used to spy on people and once you end up on that list, it's hard to get off it. The US government wants to have access to public library information to know what types of books people read. The list goes on and on. Just because I read Karl Marx, doesn't mean I am going to fly a plane into a skyscraper. But you get categorized and your life turns to hell. Until it happens to you, it sounds crazy. But it's the reality we're facing.

People must understand that these negative changes never happen over night, they come in steps. Until it's impossible to resist. In Nazi Germany everyone lived in terror, because the government basically did whatever it wanted. Look at many countries right now. The press is far from free in Russia for example, Journalists get killed all the time. In China it's even more dangerous. We are heading towards that.

Wikileaks is a good example…Of course it's a smear campaign against Assange. For example the US military is committing crimes, wikileaks has exposed those, so Assange is the enemy? I think that is insane. The US should have taken those soldiers who killed children for no reason to court instead. I believe that multi-national corporations have hijacked the armies of our countries and use those for their own interest. This is purely about making profits for a small number of people. They exploit the power of the state and kill the carriers of anyone who stands in their way.

Ever wondered why investors only further carriers of artists who seem more like puppets? Ever watch TV and thought:"How did this fool get this job???" There you go… and this is just entertainment, not even that important. Without going too deep into that, it is also happening in way more powerful positions. Get regulators in place for the banks? Good idea in theory, but the banks will make sure those who get the job won't be capable of stopping the next crisis.



Sex trafficking is a dire trade that is still very much in operation, and is tackled on Blood In My Eyes. What can be done to crack down on it, and do ATR know anyone who fell victim to it?

Alec: We spoke to a few women, and some people we know worked in organizations who help the victims. But Blood In My Eyes is about something else…it is targeted at everyone else who is supporting that system. These crimes rise during big sports events like the Olympic Games or the Football Worldcup. All those drunken fools who pay to fuck support this slavery. It's not funny, it's not cool, it must be stopped. Somehow many people are inspired by American Hip Hop videos in which artists like 50 Cent surrounds himself 'bitches' and 'whores'. That guy has played for dictators like Gaddafi while people were getting tortured and killed.

I think it's a shame that public funded radio stations like the BBC play those artists by the way. Beyonce playing for Gaddafi? She shouldn't be allowed to even enter Europe. Shame on those artists. Politicians like Martin Luther King gave their lives and those top 40 artists come along and support dictators? Shame on all of us to let them get away with it.

With Blood In My Eyes, Nic is basically saying to people: Tell your friends, tell everybody to NOT support this modern form of slavery financially. This is a growing industry and your sister or wife or daughter could be next. Many women disappear and get shipped off to foreign countries, it's not just a problem that 3rd World countries have. It goes both ways. Many people call for more police and more laws etc… we tell people: stop helping those greedy scumbags by paying for sex with women who are forced into this.

Black Flags deals in part with the way the banks are charging normal citizens for their incompetence, in the sense that it highlights rich people seeming to be above the law. However, is it right for anarchists to align themselves with anti-cuts protesters, when those protesters are in part demanding more government and a bigger state? Traditionally anarchists demand the abolition of government, so does that therefore mean there is a conflict of interests?

Alec: We don't speak about the anti-cuts protesters in the song. The problem is that the government tax laws are distorting the idea of the free market economy or whatever you want to call it. If multinational corporations pay no tax, then local businesses have no chance to survive. The actions of the governments in the Western countries feel like they have some sort of mafia deal with the corporations. People are getting blackmailed, so they give in.

There is no way forward if this doesn't stop. I can understand the anti-cuts protesters, but it's a short term solution. I think the financial crisis was caused because government regulations were in place and went wrong. If those wouldn't exist, nobody would trust the banks. They would have to convince their customers. But the governments legitimize what the banks do, so ordinary people trust that, because they think they elected those politicians.

The super rich are waging the class war, not the poor. And they won't stop, not until they even own your genetic code. It sounds like a bad sci-fi, but that's where it's heading, if we don’t do something against it.
I think that's where this huge disrespect for those in power comes from…those people celebrate themselves as some sort of elite who is driving the world forward, but when damages occur..the financial crisis, the BP scandal, Fukushima etc…then they don't want to pay for their wrong doings and take responsibility…at the end of the day those positions in power are just inherited in most cases.

On a smaller scale look at some of the celebrities like Paris Hilton or so… [they] pay PR companies to be loved and famous without having achieved anything. I think the atmosphere wouldn't be so heated if those elites would take responsibly for their own actions and not shift those over to the tax payer…That's why people must realize that your national identity won't protect you in the end. The national flag doesn't mean anything apart from getting drunk and watching football…the black flag stands for having no state, no government, determining your own life, thinking outside those borders.



The title track of the album deals with the protest movement and the possibility of bringing down the government. Do you think that, since Cairo, governments have a new awareness of the power of their people?

Alec: The soft power strategies of the USA have probably more to do with those protests than Twitter or Facebook. This technology can also be used to restrict our freedoms. ‘Is This Hyperreal?’ really is about when the mob mentality goes wrong, the atmosphere after a failed revolution, when people have acted for the wrong reasons: hate and anger. The song is a warning. It supposed to make people think, that's why it has no beats or rhythms. Very unusual for ATR to apply this technique. But we think it has a strong effect on the listener.

Most things that governments do are about keeping the masses under control. When the Rolling Stones played Berlin in the 60ties, the secret police monitored every moment of the concert and took notes. Yes, they are aware of the threat that music can be…since centuries. There is evidence in the French Revolution and earlier. Music can provide a mind grid and enslave people, so they stick to that thinking pattern. We know that from churches and many religions, the military, when we go shopping, weddings, Christmas and so on…a certain type of music is being played, and bang, everybody is more or less in sync and behaves a certain way.

But music can also do the exact opposite, it can disturb and damage that grid. Filmscores are good examples for that. Brad Pitt might offer us the same exact face expression, but the music in the background decides if we believe his acting performance… ATR used those techniques since the beginning. When you listen to the music, you question the world as it is, you see things different, very different. And because it's the unknown you are forced to make up your own mind. You stop being a sheep.



What is the trojan horse software that the German government have installed in certain citizens computers, and why should it worry us?

Alec: This doesn't only happen in Germany. There were cases in the US, too. Some call it Govware, others Remote Forensic Software. Governments access your personal computer to check if you have data on there that is a threat to them. Without having any evidence that you committed a crime. This is the equivalent of having strange taxmen or cops come into your house all the time, while you sleep, while you take a shower, while you talk to your friends. The computer has become a device where a lot of personal data is stored. From your favorite music, to books you bought, photos, letters/emails. Keep the government out of your personal life.

That line between your public and private life needs to be kept. Only in oppressed societies we find that it doesn't exist anylonger. Nazi Germany or the GDR, East- Socialist Germany are very good examples of that. The German film "Lives of the others" is a very good example for what I am talking about. To live in a society where you're constantly being monitored is hell.

The threat of extreme religious terrorism is obviously real and has to be confronted in one way or another. Ignoring the way the Western governments deal with this for a second, how do you personally feel the best way to approach it would be?

Alec: I can only speak for myself here…I don't judge people or categorize them because of religion. I am not a religious person. A lot of these problems would go away if we would start seeing the person first and not assuming all the negativity that mass media has fed to us. Terrorism always occurs when there is injustice and an unfair system at work. This goes for any society. That doesn't justify those actions of course. But what I am trying to say is that solving this problem is way more complex and just sending out more troops and having more violence hasn't changed much in the last 10 years.

I got the impression that the situation worsens from year to year. Our focus should also be on our own governments who seem to abuse this situation to pass the most insane laws which will restrict our own freedoms.

Women in France have started being arrested for wearing the burka, a law which came into being on the day I'm writing these questions. Isn't it amazing (and horrifying) that a government can legislate what people are allowed to wear?

Alec: It's crazy…the control technology that is being used for fingerprints is not that great. The software that recognizes faces is the future. The politicians can only pass those laws because people feel alienated about religions that are different. The burka stands for the oppression of women in our society, but in my world the American Republican house wife stands for the oppression of women. If we really wanted to help those women, we should find other ways, not banning a piece of clothing.

These things change all the time anyway…some people saw the mini-skirt as some sort symbol for liberation of women in the 60ties, a decade later it became the symbol of women being treated as sex objects. Those codes don't work in our time anymore. People who believe that someone who is wearing Harry Potter glasses is more cultivated and more intelligent than others, has a real problem understanding our time.

How do you feel about the disappearance of the (Chinese activist) Ai Weiwei? Do you support the work of Amnesty International?

Alec: It's a warning to all of us. I feel that corporations and our governments love China, when they look at the profits being made over there. Check back in a few years, you'll find that our societies will have adapted more from the Chinese political system than we could imagine right now. The train is going in that direction. We see signs of that everywhere. Artists are under attack. If it's the Dixie Chicks during the Iraq War, or the Pirate Party trying to create a basis for multi-national corporations to take any creative idea from you to commercialize it for their own profits without giving you a share.

People can argue as much as they want about music piracy. It hasn't brought a more democratic and fair system that supports new artists...yes, everyone can become a number in the telephone book…the internet…upload forever but not much will come from there…it has made the famous more famous. The indies get eradicated, while major labels get financed by other channels.

This situation [Ai Weiwei] has pretty much silenced the music scene when it comes to speaking out actively about politics. That's a fact. I know it's not what people like to hear, but that's what is happening in reality. Make no mistake…the only way we can make sure that free speech is possible in our society is if everybody supports the artists when they do speak out for us.

The biggest pressure comes from the amount of people backing an idea. Many people seem to not worry about these things anymore because organisations like Amnesty International 'take care of it'. Don't be paranoid, but realise that when things get really tough, everyone becomes a target. In Nazi Germany or socialist Eastern Germany the terror was that anyone could get locked up or sentenced to death, guilty or not.

If you live two or three months away from being homeless, if you would lose your job, then the need to hire an expensive lawyer to fight a law suit is no option…it will destroy your life. These are the modern ways of making sure people stay in line and follow orders. I criticise that because a corrupt system always collapses, that's natural…and when it does , it gets ugly…but it's down to the super rich to fix that and create a more balanced and fair society.

The amount of time we spend online is forever increasing, and in some cases leading to nervousness when we're away from our emails for too long. Do you find it easy to maintain a balance between reality and your online life, and is it important to do so?

Alec: I don't divide between the virtual and non-virtual world…If I can't check emails, then I just can't…I don't get nervous about it. I am used to disconnect myself from everybody and everything. I love being online while I do other things. When I programmed beats for the new album, I was constantly connected to Twitter…I felt like making music on Times Square or something…but yeah sometimes you got to keep all that stuff away from you.

What do you make of the idea that one day we'll all just upload ourselves completely and leave our bodies behind?

Alec: I feel like that every time I put a record out haha...

Brian Eno once said that uncertainty should be celebrated - should we embrace the chaos of the internet, as mass culture accelerates at a speed we can barely stop to comprehend?

Alec: We not only should embrace the 'chaos of the internet' we should mirror it in the non-virtual world. The internet is the biggest experiment and proof that true anarchy can work. After a short phase of uproar, respect and collective thinking will rule. The order and security that the so called 'authorities' provide for us, are illusions. Because they only work for a small number of super rich people. Let's stop handing over these basic principles of living together to Big Brother and the State. If we don't start educating young kids now, religion, government programs or google won't do it for us.

If you could recommend one book for our readers to get hold of, which one would it be and why?

Alec: Gilles Deleuze "Mille Plateaux" - I know I recommended this before to people, but it's still so relevant.